Oh it was a fantastic talk at the Museum. I went in May with my best friend (who is about as straight as I am, which is to say not much) and so when we heard over the announcements that there would be a talk on queer history in the Navy it was an instantly unanimous decision over how we were spending the next hour.
The talk was really quite good -- there wasn't that much information that I didn't already know, but it validated my own knowledge. (That being said, I had no idea George Villiers was Lord Admiral!) There was an interesting point made, however, that I keep circling back to -- how until the farce of Wilde's trial and the ensuing fear that men together were acting inappropriately it was a lot more acceptable for men to be physically affectionate with each other ('Kiss me, Hardy') and so naturally I wonder just *how* much that affection could be shown publicly without inciting suspicion. (Which reminds me, I need to share that picture I found with two naval officers holding hands.)
See, this is why I shouldn't be allowed to write anything at 2am when I get home from work. Yes, yes, I agree wholeheartedly. I wasn't really working with a clear definition there so I got a bit muddled. I think the biggest issue I have with Barbara is she's so anachronistic (also her name sticks out like a sore thumb in her family.) She's a 20th century male fantasy in a 19th century world -- not saying that such women didn't exist, of course, but as far as I know a single woman such as herself would have been scorned for preferring the company of men -- it would be suspicious. I'm not particularly well-versed in Austen, but to my mind that's what lends her work such reality, that there are women with deep emotional attachments to other women. And I agree on Marie, she is there just for men. She is passive, she gives her body to Hornblower both to comfort him and later to die for him. Neither her nor Barbara care for other women. And even Maria, to a certain extent, exists only for her husband, but she at least finds company in other women. And yes, I do want the Barbara/Maria story, although I fear there that's still just Barbara interacting with another woman for a man's benefit.
(This is just making me want to work on my gender-swap story, which always ends up being very funny because the male versions of Marie and Barbara exist ONLY to be there for women.)
No, don't apologise for the rant. I need to get better at nailing down definitions before I expound on them.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2019-09-15 07:29 pm (UTC)The talk was really quite good -- there wasn't that much information that I didn't already know, but it validated my own knowledge. (That being said, I had no idea George Villiers was Lord Admiral!) There was an interesting point made, however, that I keep circling back to -- how until the farce of Wilde's trial and the ensuing fear that men together were acting inappropriately it was a lot more acceptable for men to be physically affectionate with each other ('Kiss me, Hardy') and so naturally I wonder just *how* much that affection could be shown publicly without inciting suspicion. (Which reminds me, I need to share that picture I found with two naval officers holding hands.)
See, this is why I shouldn't be allowed to write anything at 2am when I get home from work. Yes, yes, I agree wholeheartedly. I wasn't really working with a clear definition there so I got a bit muddled. I think the biggest issue I have with Barbara is she's so anachronistic (also her name sticks out like a sore thumb in her family.) She's a 20th century male fantasy in a 19th century world -- not saying that such women didn't exist, of course, but as far as I know a single woman such as herself would have been scorned for preferring the company of men -- it would be suspicious. I'm not particularly well-versed in Austen, but to my mind that's what lends her work such reality, that there are women with deep emotional attachments to other women. And I agree on Marie, she is there just for men. She is passive, she gives her body to Hornblower both to comfort him and later to die for him. Neither her nor Barbara care for other women. And even Maria, to a certain extent, exists only for her husband, but she at least finds company in other women. And yes, I do want the Barbara/Maria story, although I fear there that's still just Barbara interacting with another woman for a man's benefit.
(This is just making me want to work on my gender-swap story, which always ends up being very funny because the male versions of Marie and Barbara exist ONLY to be there for women.)
No, don't apologise for the rant. I need to get better at nailing down definitions before I expound on them.
*does the more fic cringe*